Attempting a Market District Beer Purchase
Posted by mike | Filed under Beer, Commentary
After Thursday’s trip to Market District, I was inspired to give the whole beer-in-a-Giant-Eagle thing a try. When I walked in, there was actually a big display of Christmas Ale 6 packs from Great Lakes Brewing Company. Having grown up in Ohio, I tend to get excited that particular seasonal brew: it takes me back to the genesis of my beer snobbery with friends over at Ray’s Place in Kent, OH. Before I left for the night, I was planning on picking up a 6 pack.
Sadly, this is the last picture before my camera died.
Unfortunately, my beer purchasing experience was less than stellar, but I’ll hold off on describing exactly why until then end of this post. I do think that the ability to buy beer in Giant Eagle is a big step forward for PA, so I’ll start by talking a little bit about the actual implementation.
Some notes on the selection. At least back in Ohio, Giant Eagle tends to have a pretty good beer selection. Despite what some Pennsylvanians might suspect, G’Eagle’s coolers have always offered up far more than just a few macro-brews. On that basis, I expected to find a pretty good selection at the new Market District, and the new store did let me down (at least with respect to selection).
5 standard coolers—4 of them decent. At first, I counted about 5 standard size beverage coolers. Only a little over one full cooler was filled with macro-brewed light lager. Every thing else, which was the vast majority of available space, contained beer that I would be happy to buy. Of course, the larger and well-known regional craft brewers were well represented: Boston Beer Company, Great Lakes, Stone, Magic Hat, Flying Dog, Sierra Nevada. Even so, establishments like D’s Six Packs and Three Sons shouldn’t have to worry about: the new store lacked options from smaller and less well-known “niche brewers.” When I’m seeking out something truly interesting, I’ll still head out to either of those establishments. Carrying any such small distribution options will never make sense for Giant Eagle.
An end cap of surprises. I almost didn’t notice on my first pass, but just around the corner from the primary coolers, there was a bit of an end cap with some more notable options in larger bottles. I took note of large bottles from the likes of Stone, Orval, Ommegang, Samuel Smith, Carlsberg-Tetley’s, Chimay, and Franziskaner. None of those is ground-breaking in any way, but seeing them in Giant Eagle is a notable experience. There’s actually a full beer list on the Giant Eagle site, if you want any more detail.
Walling off the beer section. Separating beer in its own part of the store is fairly standard under—even the most lax of alcohol regulations, so it wasn’t surprising to see a separate area walled off in the new Market District. On the other hand, completely separate cash registers and barriers separating the beer from the cafeteria area were slightly more surprising. If you wanted to pick up a beer to enjoy with one of the prepared foods, then you would have to pay for the food at one counter, make your way into the beer area, and make a separate purchase. The situation could be far worse, but that’s somewhat of a pain.
How I ended up frustrated and without beer. Now for that tale of woe I promised up top. After the reception and tour, I wanted to wander around the store on my own and scope it out in a little more detail. I knew I wanted to pick up beer a some point, and decided that would probably work best if I did it on the way out.
Upon finishing my shopping, I had three or four items in a small basket, so I thought I’d ask around to see if I could pay for them right in the beer area. The first employee I asked didn’t have an answer, so I walked right up to the beer area’s entrance and asked the woman standing guard (yes, guard). She said those registers were for beer only, so I walked halfway back to the other side of the store for the main cash registers to make my purchase. Once I paid for everything, I walked back into the store, through the prepared foods section, and over to the beer area.
The Automated mid-purchase shut-off. Once in the walled-off beer area, I picked up that Christmas Ale I had been targeting and grabbed an organic hard cider for a cider-loving friend. I stepped in line and waited through 2-3 transactions in front of me. That’s right about when it all fell apart. Halfway through processing the order for the guy in front of me, the cashier looked up and said, “no more beer.” Apparently, the cash registers automatically shut off right at 9:00pm, and I had just missed the window. There was no judgment call, no warning announcement, and no opportunity to at least flush out the line—just a series of powered-down registers and frustrated would-be customers.
Obviously, I was a little frustrated on the way home. In the end, I’m not really sure where I should direct my frustration: the state of PA or Giant Eagle. Whatever the cause of the backwards process, I think there are a few simple things Giant Eagle could do to vastly improve the experience for their newly available beer area.
Some Possible Improvements
- Post signs to explain the beer purchasing process.
- Make sure everyone on staff understands that process.
- Announce the impending cut-off 15-30 minutes ahead of time.
- Close off the area rather than frustrating every one in line.
- Let the cashier use his own judgment instead of cutting power.
Really, that’s all I ask. I don’t want to sound angry, or turn prospective customers away from Giant Eagle. Rather, I want the process to work. I would like nothing more than for beer purchasing to at the new store to go off without a hitch and serve as a model for similar establishments around the state. The best thing I can do to enable that to explain the problems I ran into and hope someone cares enough to fix it.
November 7th, 2009 at 11:50 pm
Automatic shutoff is pretty inhuman. Perhaps that Jeremy guy (or whatever his name was) still needs to get his hands on that area. Guess it’s a good thing that Scheidt and I didn’t attempt to purchase beer at 10:30 last night. Scheidt was “too tired to walk all the way over there.” One of the drawbacks of a giant store, I guess, but it worked out in our favor.
November 8th, 2009 at 7:53 pm
Nice but for chrissakes: Separating beer in it’s own part of the store is fairly standard” – it’s? It’s is a contraction for it is. It is not the possessive. Sixth grade, dude!
November 9th, 2009 at 7:30 am
Thank for the more careful proof-reading, Peter; I corrected the typo.
…fingers and brain don’t always agree when I’m posting.
November 9th, 2009 at 11:24 am
Some things that you didn’t mention that I’ve heard from others that I would like you to comment on are:
I’ve heard that you have to buy a meal before you can drink on premise. That sounded shifty to me, but apparently Wegmans in Erie that has beer sales does it as well as some bars. So it does not seem illegal like I first thought.
Also I heard that you couldn’t mix and match to make six packs. I know they have single large bottles of beer, but was there a way to get single 12 oz bottles?
They obviously don’t want people drinking on premise and I want to see how much pain they add to their legal obligation. I’m going to have a beer on premise every time I go there simply because they don’t want me to. They bought a tavern license instead of a distributor license so they could sell six packs. I’m going to hold them to all parts of their license, not just the parts they find convenient.
It is amazing that the PLCB actually is our side for once.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
Nice, Jeff: they went to this trouble to make it possible to buy a sixpack…and all you can think of is dicking them?
It’s not illegal, it’s strictly policy; there are bottle shops that do the same thing. But I don’t think you can “hold them” to that part of the license. They have the option of simply refusing to serve you…and then you get into legal. What’s the big deal? Why do you insist that they be a bar that sells sixpacks? Don’t we…already have those, and that’s the problem? I’m baffled.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:25 pm
Well maybe I need some perspective. I’m not saying to boycott them, not at all. I think it’s good what they are doing. Just to exercise the things that they offer to try to get them to be more consumer friendly.
November 9th, 2009 at 8:43 pm
Whoa. Lots of discussion (which is good). Let me respond to some of Jeff’s questions…
> I’ve heard that you have to buy a meal before you can drink on
> premise. That sounded shifty to me, but apparently Wegmans in Erie
> that has beer sales does it as well as some bars. So it does not
> seem illegal like I first thought.
There were a handful of people at the blogger reception who had the foresight to grab a single beer on their way up. Both had plates of food, so I don’t have any data on whether the actually needed to buy food. I will say that there’s probably nothing stopping you from buying beer than heading up the stairs to the cafe area. The big question would be whether they police the dining area for that sort of thing.
If they do plan to police for it, then they really need to post some signage stating the policy. There’s very little clarity right now, and I’m hoping that’s an indication that the details of the process are still a work in progress.
> Also I heard that you couldn’t mix and match to make six packs. I
> know they have single large bottles of beer, but was there a way to
> get single 12 oz bottles?
Based on the layout, I suspect this is true. There are no individual bottles or empty six pack boxes to facilitate mixing and matching.
Honestly, I’m fine with only buying 6-packs to go. Can you think of a use case in which you would want to go hang out in a Giant Eagle cafeteria to enjoy a beer with friends? I’d just as soon make my way to a bar/restaurant for that.
What concerns me is that even the purchase of a full six pack turned out to be backwards and error-prone. I’d rather start by just motivating them to fix that process before working on anything else.
November 11th, 2009 at 6:19 pm
What a bad idea – Saul (David’s father), the 1st CEO of this wonderful chain, would have NEVER permitted beer around his children like they are doing now in Giant Eagle – allow children the chance to purchase beer with the opportunity to purchase his gas within the same shopping experience (Get-Go) and drive around town with that beer in lap. Furthur more – if you read that law, these customers are permitted to drink in the “beer area” then walk around the store. So now when my wife is in the frozen food section, I have to worry about some drunk fool who just chugged 4 beers under the same roof. Thanks Giant Eagle – here I come WalMart!! If people don’t like the CommonWealth laws and what we stand for – then move…..don’t let the wrong people change what we have made – for example the wonderful people as Saul and the other Families that started Giant Eagle in this CommonWealth state.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:02 pm
Argh. Larry, no one in this thread has any interest in chugging 4 beers before making our way to the frozen food section. We’re talking about responsibly enjoying a beer with a meal or taking home a 6 pack to enjoy later.
What in the past has led you to believe that beer available through Giant Eagle will promote this kind of alcohol abuse? I don’t expect (or condone) anything of the sort.
November 13th, 2009 at 10:20 am
Where is the discussion about price? Is it comparable to beer distributors, or to carry out from delis?
November 17th, 2009 at 10:24 pm
Mike – my point is that in State College and in Erie – where they have had this going on for some time now – the under age drinking is off the CHARTS in Wegmans – I agree with the having a bite to eat with a beer idea (I do it all the time) – but in the right place where the people working follow the rules of NOT serving minors and where our wives are not with our young children shopping in the same building of beer chugging fools are. You’re going to say most states sell beer in their groc stores – well, look at those crime stats and how beer is part of it in those same stores – it’s an objective statement. Saul, David and soon to be David’s daughter (I forget her name) were/are very high class people and I can’t believe this is happening in GE – wern’t they already in the beer business years ago and got out fast?
November 17th, 2009 at 10:29 pm
btw – I’m a HUGE fan of all the craft beers, local beers, beer pair schools in the little 6-pack joints, talking with beer snobs like me etc….say good bye to all those places AND all the good beers. Have fun with drinking coors lt and corona all the time – that is also my point I guess – it just makes me so upset – I’m counting the days till we hear on the news something bad happened in our beautiful GE stores due to the beer in the same building.
November 19th, 2009 at 8:44 am
Larry – Can you please provide information / sources that support your accusations on underage drinking around PA grocery stores?
November 19th, 2009 at 4:13 pm
As an owner of a beer distributor I am curious as to the price of a 6-pack (mass produced and microbrewed). Here is our fear-Giant Eagle (and you better believe new walmarts are building their cafes also) will be able to sell their beer below cost right now because they make enough profit on other items (which by the way distributors cannot do). Once beer distributors are gone (and we will disappear) they will able to charge and sell whatever gives them the best deal.
November 19th, 2009 at 6:30 pm
Toni: I haven’t had a chance to get back down to the new Giant Eagle, but I’ll definitely report on prices when I do.
November 19th, 2009 at 6:34 pm
Larry: I’ll second Jeff’s request for the source of your claims. My understanding is that several studies have suggested no correlation between keeping beer out of grocery stores and crime reductions.
For example: Study questions benefit of state-store control
November 23rd, 2009 at 8:42 am
What to start with. First of all, I am glad that the Eagle can sell beer period. Imagine my confusion when I first came to Pittsburgh about 10 years ago. I had just started with a new company and was staying in a hotel. Went into the Eagle to get a six pack and watch MNF. I walked around the store for 20 mminutes trying to find the beer cooler only to eventually be told that I had to go to a beer store. Never having expereinced this I thought what have I gotten myself into. Who to blame for the control of alchol. The State. Their attempt to make sure they get paid on any and everything is the root of this horribly alchol buying process. The cutoff time is a joke, but if the rule is 9pm then that’s it. Make everyone aware of the procedure and move on.
November 27th, 2009 at 10:02 am
Mike and Jeff – you are right, in groc stores that provide TAKE OUT ONLY those may be the stats – again, that is not the model here in our PA stores – it is a bar/tavern liq lic – which means people can drink there. Go look at the stats in Camp Hill or Erie ….go look in Altoona – kids are selling kids beer! Then they get their RX drugs and fill up their gas tanks. Again, no other state where your stats are from provide those at the same time – drink there and load up on RXs/gas. How about the stats on the fights that have already taken place due to their beer, in the listed areas and now in Robinson? These places are groc stores in a commonwealth – with the model of “not intoducing alc to people who are not looking for it” – my question to both of you is….how long have you worked for Giant Eagle? And again, Saul would have never done such a thing – we hope Laura puts a stop to it.
Concerned Parents and Huge fans of GE that are ready to shop somewhere else…..
November 27th, 2009 at 10:12 am
I just read Toni’s post – my goodness! I didn’t even think of that!! Our Beer Dists will be gone if this continues and spreads through the GE stores. So much for buying beer by the case or keg. Being retired, I may start a group to fight this – we will protest the beer sales in the groc stores and sponsor Happy Hours to Biker Gangs!! I’m sure Mike and Jeff would join the group with some studies :)
December 6th, 2009 at 7:46 am
If beer comes to my GE – I’m shopping somewhere else – it’s not the same as other states and anyone who thinks that is a fool – they put a bar in our food stores – the public needs to know what is going to happen to their stores – I’m scared to put my kids in the eagles nest now!
December 8th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
Hi Mike! I wanted to respond to your post above about your beer-buying experience at Market District. As an employee, allow me to apologize on behalf of Market District for any inconvenience. We’ve learned a lot over the last five weeks, in terms of beer preferences and have made a number of changes to improve our customers’ experience, including:
- Extending the beer purchase hours to 10 PM. We’ve also adjusted the automatic register shut off to allow the cashiers to finish transactions that are cutting it close.
- Adding a number of seasonal, craft and imported beers to the Market District set.
- Posting a sign at each register at the front end of the store indicating beer purchases are not allowed. We also have shelf and overhead signs in the licensed areas advising customers that they must purchase beer in the designated area. This isn’t just a Market District rule, but rules mandated by the State of Pennsylvania. Keep in mind though, that you can purchase “food/restaurant” items when you buy beer.
- Working with our Team Members to make sure they understand the rules and can easily explain it to customers. This is something new to our Team Members as well and we’re working hard to get them familiar with the rules of the program in order to meet the needs of our customers in a safe, legal way.
Thanks again for providing feedback. It gives us great insight and helps us learn how to better serve our customers. Speaking of, we’d love to hear your ideas for beer selections you’d like to see at the store.
Let us know. Cheers!
December 8th, 2009 at 8:42 pm
Amie – how many beers can we drink in your store at one time?
December 8th, 2009 at 10:50 pm
Hey Amie! Thank you for following up on this issue. The hours extension and time to finish pending transactions are welcome changes. I’m glad to see that Giant Eagle is interested in adapting the process to better suit customer needs/expectations.
Regarding beer selection, I certainly don’t think that’s the problem. In general, I was pleased with the selection I found at the new Market District. The only concern I’ve heard from a few others is whether the selection will be echoed any additional Giant Eagles that start selling beer. I’ll wait until I see what happens on that front before I comment.
In general, I’m supportive of Giant Eagle–especially their efforts to sell beer in PA. It’s a bit of a change from what PA residents are used to, but I think it’s a good change. The only way we’re going to get there is by slowly poking holes in the usual PA policies, and I see GE as an important example of that gradual shift.
December 9th, 2009 at 8:27 am
Larry,
PLEASE! Show me or tell me the source of the claims you are making about these grocery stores in Camp Hill, Erie, and Altoona. When you do I’d be happy to have a conversation about the potential problems with grocery store sales.
December 9th, 2009 at 9:13 am
So Larry you have an issue with beer in Giant Eagle so what’s your stance on the state stores in Giant Eagle? What’s stopping me from buying a bottle of jack and picking up some sleeping pills then going out into the parking lot, having a party then go driving?
How do you know that’s really coke in your 2 liter and someone didnt stick the date rape drug in it?
How do you know that’s not a terrorist stocking your selves waiting to take you out when you buy Spotted Dick?
The only person who would do your outlandish scenarios is you.
December 9th, 2009 at 9:14 am
btw, i send Teaspoon to the Eagles Nest with a bottle of cognac and cigars all the time. He’s a pimp like thta.
December 9th, 2009 at 11:46 am
Hi, Larry,
There is a 2 beer consumption limit in store. We are asking our servers/porters/team members and managers to monitor the 2 beer consumption. Let us know if you have any additional questions.
Thanks,
Amie
December 9th, 2009 at 9:47 pm
Amie, that is my point….with the Liq Lic you have (Tavern) you can NOT limit people unless they are drunk – it’s against the law.
Mike – I agree with you on the selection, if there were “beer only” and “off prem” purchasing – it’s a bar!
Jeff – In Camp Hill, Red Lion High School has articles about their HS kids selling beer to their friends in the stores, Erie has people drinking in the stores (I’ve seen it) – Altoona has the Sheetz that is getting slapped by the law and in appeal – no links to offer nor do I have to prove anything to you – they are facts. It’s all objective – please stop attempting to make the subject subjective. They taought you well in law school son and tell Danny nice work.
Spoon – grow up in regard to those outragous remarks. As far as the state stores – they are off prem, you can’t belly up there – but I don’t agree with the open door to the GE (wexford I think it is).
Lastly, my poiint is that I love GE, I respect all the families that made the chain what it is, I’m upset that they are opening taverns inside the stores as a work-a-round to the commonwealth laws. To what the lady was saying above as well – what happens to all the beer stores that we know of today where we buy cases? Guess what, the domestics that they sell so much of will dry up by the case and they will close – then, get ready to say good by to the PA brewerys too, say goodby to the great crafts that ONLY come in a case – Have fun with your Miller Lite and Corona 6 packs!!
December 10th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
Larry, Spoons remarks are no more outrageous than some of the objective stuff that you have been spouting off. Alluding that drinking beer in the cafe will turn people into rapists in the dairy isle. I think that someone drinking tequila in the parking lot before driving off might be a little more plausible.
I don’t even understand your position anymore. You don’t have a problem with liquor sales adjacent to a grocery store. But if beer is sold the same way, you do.
Kids working the register selling beer to kids + Drunk fights in Wegemens – any sort of attribution = Scare Mongering.
Back to my regularly schedule programming. Tip your waitresses, and don’t feed the trolls.